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 ZT: 看看当代美国人是怎么评价美国顶级大学的 |
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shanice
头衔: 海归上校
加入时间: 2004/04/18
文章: 579
海归分: 73378
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作者：shanice 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
Orignal Post for Comment
Time: April 11, 2004 --- April 13, 2004
Titile: Is Yale as a whole out of TOP5 in US? worse than Berkeley ?
Hello, Guys, I just got very strong opinion from some major foreign college forum which considers Yale and Princeton University, including the strength of both undergrad & grad school, is OUT of Top 5 in US after Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Caltech !
As I know from USNEWS and native US people's recognition. HYP is always Top 3 in US. But they believe that is only for undergraduate program. They declare that Yale have a much weaker graduate school than Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Caltech based on the two
following academic facts:
1. 2005 USNEWS graduate school ranking date where Berkeley and Stanford seems take top 5-10 almost in every major while Yale is not especially in the areas of science and engineering. (for example, Yale ranks No. 40 in engineering school )
By US NEWS 2005 graduate school ranking.
Law: Yale (#1), Stanford (#3), Berkeley (#13)
Business: Yale (#14), Stanford (#2), Berkeley (#
medical school: Yale (#10), Stanford (#, Berkeley (no rank)
Engineering: Yale (#40), Stanford (#2), Berkeley (#3)
Education: Yale (No rank), Stanford (#1), Berkeley (#6)
Math: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#2), Berkeley (#2)
Physics: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#3), Berkeley (#3)
Chemistry: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#5), Berkeley (#1)
biology: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#1), Berkeley (#2)
computer science: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#1), Berkeley (#1)
geology: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#3), Berkeley (#3)
economics: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#2), Berkeley (Not in top 5)
English: Yale (#1), Stanford (#1), Berkeley (#1)
Psycology: Yale (#3), Stanford (#1), Berkeley (NOT in top 5)
sociology: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#5), Berkeley (#1)
politics: Yale (NOT in top 5), Stanford (#2), Berkeley (#2)
history: Yale (#1), Stanford (#3), Berkeley (#3)
NOBEL Prize: Yale (5 winners), Stanford (17), Berkeley (1
Wolf prize: Yale (1 winner), Stanford (6), Berkeley (9)
National medal of science: Yale (8 winners), Stanford (29), Berkeley (29)
Membership in NAS: YAle (67 members), Stanford (120), Berkeley (124)
membership in NAE: Yale (<10 members) Stanford (81), Berkeley (8
-------------------------------------------
Conclusion: Yale is worse than Stanford and Berkeley
2. The total number of four major intentional recognized Academic Prize including: Nobel Prize; Crafoord Prize (by Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences ); Wolf Prize (by THE WOLF FOUNDATION); National Medal of Science ( USA). Yale takes only No.12 in US
considering the total prize number rank
The top 20 Research Universities: (Yale is only No.12)
Nobel Prize
Crafoord Prize (by Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences)
Wolf Prize (by THE WOLF FOUNDATION)
National Medal of Science (USA)
----------------------------------------
Ranking according to the total award numbers:
Ranking Institution Nobel Crafoord Wolf Medal (Total#)
1 Harvard 30 5 6 28 (69)
2 Stanford 16 2 6 27 (51)
3 Caltech 15 3 6 22 (46)
3 Berkeley 14 0 9 23 (46)
5 MIT 15 1 3 19 (3
6 Chicago 15 0 5 12 (32)
7 Columbia 14 0 5 10 (29)
8 Princeton 10 0 5 13 (2
9 UIUC 4 1 5 11 (21)
10 Cornell 8 1 4 7 (20)
11 UW-Madison 3 0 4 9 (16)
***********************
12 Yale 5 0 1 8 (14)
***********************
13 UCLA 4 0 1 7 (12)
14 UPenn 4 1 2 4 (11)
15 Johns Hopkins 3 0 2 4 (9)
16 UT-Austin 1 0 2 3 (6)
17 UMich 0 0 0 4 (4)
17 CMU 1 0 1 2 (4)
19 Northwestern 1 0 0 0 (1)
20 Duke 0 0 0 0 (0)
Based on these data, they claim firmly that Yale, including the strength of both undergrad & grad school is OUT of Top 5 in US after Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, and Caltech! Their analysis sounds reasonable, But the conclusion that Yale and is out of Top 5 in US
contradicts to the established HYP tale. Actually, they are very sure that Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, and Caltech are the unquestionable Top 5 in USA. Yale and Princeton are weaker.
So I would appreciate any opinions from you native guys towards the following questions:
1. Is Yale University as a whole (including both undergrad & grad) OUT of Top 5 in US? What's Yale's position in native people's view?
2. What's the position of Yale's graduate school in US? Does Yale, in terms of quality and strength, have a weaker graduate school as a whole comparing to Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, and Caltech as the USNEWS data shows? Is the USNEWS graduate school ranking
quality or quantity oriented?
3.How does the professional school (Law, Medicine, Business) contribute to the overall strength of University Comparing to the research oriented engineering and science school which majorly holds PHD programs ?
4 Do you think the two lists they quoted can sufficiently verify their claim that Yale as a whole is out of Top 5?
5 Last but not least: Is HYP Top3 tale only for Undergraduate program or for the overall strength of University?
Please shed some light on this issue from native view. Thanks a lot.
Comments from Native American:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*By the way Robert they're all great schools don't stress too much, yale and princeton are not THE schools for engineering and hard sciences, they don't really compare to the big names in engineering such as MIT, Caltech, Cornell, Berkeley, and Stanford... however if you
do get in to the above mentioned two (yale and princeton) then you really have nothing to worry about, you will have made it into the top schools in the world regardless of what your major is. I heard one professor at the American University of Beirut (Lebanon) once that if
you get in to any of HYP, you're major has almost no effect on your career - meaning you've made it in life!! Best of luck!
*"I heard one professor at the American University of Beirut (Lebanon) once that if you get in to any of HYP, you're major has almost no effect on your career - meaning you've made it in life!!"
That's really disturbing................
*Where are your rankings for:
Humanities
Medieval Studies
Religious Studies
East Asian Studies
Classics
etc.
The fact of the matter is that any type of ranking like this is worthless... Someone going to Yale law isn't going to care about how the Yale biology department fares, and someone at Harvard Business isn't going to care about the sociology. At the graduate level, the only
things that matter are the overall name of the university and the strength of the individual program. Names like Yale and Princeton will be strong regardless of certain graduate schools. Princeton doesn't have many graduate schools to begin with, but that does nothing to the
repuation of the undergraduate school or the Wilson School.
*According to The Times of London, Europe's largest newspaper, Harvard and Yale are "the two greatest universities in the world." (27 November, 1998)
If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what does.
If you look at alumni success, or graduates who receive prestigious postgraduate fellowships, Yale ranks first out of every college and university in the United States. Statistically, the only possible competitors to Yale in alumni success are Harvard and Caltech.
The success of Yale alumni is not surprising when you consider that in terms of undergraduate quality Yale is unparalleled (except for Caltech, a tiny university where 99% of students major in the sciences). The student-faculty ratios in the most popular undergraduate
majors are the lowest of any college or university in the country except Caltech. In fact, Yale has the smallest class sizes of any university in the country except Caltech. Furthermore, according to COHE, Yale spends more per student on teaching, advising, fellowships
than any university in the country except Caltech.
In other words, your randomly-selected "rankings" really don't say anything about the quality of a school.
And in the sciences, the only universities with more National Academy of Science members in their faculties than Yale are MIT, Berkeley, Stanford and Harvard, all of which have a MUCH, MUCH larger population of science students. Thomson ISI, the most important
scientific research organization in the world, says Yale is the nation's fourth-best university in scientific research quality after Harvard, Stanford and Caltech.
Comments from Harvard Students
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*Whats the point of this, they are all great schools
*yale is better for undergard
harvard is better for grad...
can most ppl agree with this? well..this is the harvard forum so i suppose not...
Comments from Yale Students
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*Yale is top 3
Yale is better than Berkeley
4/5 of the schools on there are particularly science schools.
All I know is that Yale law ownz Harvard and is ranked #1
HYP and S are tops, but HYP are more well know and if you will a litle more prestegious.
Again Yale is better than Berkely overall.
*Is it really fair to compare science stats between Yale and Stanford/Berkeley? Yale concentrates more on the Liberal Arts education...
*if u doubt the caliber of yale..then i suggest you consider some place else...it helps to be certain that the place your going to carries a lot of success rate and if you doubt that..consider some place else...
personally i think yale is tops...for undergrad way better than harvard...but that's a personal opinion
*I think this is pretty ridiculous, guys. These ranks are not carved in stone, really. They're subjective, vary from year to year, and vary between different sources, even. So Robert, I really think you're not looking at the situation correctly. Yale is more than a stack of numbers
and it is actually rather shocking to see you so firmly declare that Yale is absolutely not in the top 5, or whatever.
1. Most people will tell you that the undergraduate experience at Yale is phenomenal. Yale constantly stresses how much it fosters its undergraduates and you should by all means be asking as many Yalies as possible for their opinions. I doubt magazines will give you the
answers you're looking for. College is a whole lot more than these ranks because 1) it's rather difficult to judge the quality of an education quantitatively and 2) it's hard to judge schools beyond a relative range, as schools do have different pros and cons. Do you really want
to split hairs? Also, Yale's graduate/professional schools have the reputation they have because they are good. I think that Yale absolutely deserves its spot by the top schools (top 5, if you insist. #1 for me!) in the US because it offers a much more well-rounded education
than a more field-specific school such as MIT or Caltech or even Berkeley. Remember, Robert, that you're comparing overall experiences/quality.
2) Yale is known for its strength in the humanities. Thus, I'd have to say that Yale's graduate school can't compare to MIT or Berkeley when it comes to the humanities. It's definitely established as one of THE best places to get a liberal arts eduation -- in undergrad and in
grad. Similarly, Yale's science program is not as strong (though it's not so bad either) when compared to more science-oriented schools such as Berkeley and MIT. When you compare their graduate schools, it's hard to say which one is weaker and which one is stronger,
because these schools all are extremely strong in different areas. You're comparing apples and oranges. And what do you mean are rankings quality or quantity oriented? Rankings try to establish some sort of quantitative measurements of quality in order for people to
compare schools. These numbers, as I cannot stress enough, ARE NOT CARVED IN STONE.
3. Actually, I don't think I quite understand this question. But Yale's professional schools have international prestige; they are GOOD. Yale law school is -- if not THE best -- then definitely one of the best law schools in the nation. The professional schools undoubtedly
contribute to a large part of Yale's fame. I don't know what you're trying to ask about research institutions, though.
4. Absolutely not. Again, you're really comparing apples and oranges. Yale is entirely different than MIT and Caltech in that it offers a liberal arts education -- and a well-rounded one, at that. The humanities are certainly at the peak of the game (check your own statistics --
english, history, etc?) And the sciences, while not the best in the world, are also really quite good. MIT and Caltech are -- as stated in their names -- tech schools and certainly among the top 5 for science-oriented schools. In my opinion, Yale's reputation in HYP comes
from its LONG history in consistently holding high standards in ALL areas of knowledge. The education you'd get at Yale is different than what you're looking at in MIT or at Berkeley or even Stanford, where the emphasis on science is a lot stronger. I'd definitely agree with
you that Stanford is in the top 5, and maybe MIT. As for Caltech and Berkeley, I don't think they compare in that Berkeley as a whole doesn't hold up to the same academic caliber as Yale, and Caltech is too focused on science to really compare.
5. Overall strength of the university. HYP's professional and graduate schools are mentioned just about as often as their undergraduate schools are -- and those, too, hold the same amount of prestige worldwide. The caliber doesn't just drop dramatically once you pass
undergrad, for sure.
Hope that helped. I'll bring a close to my long-winded response now. =)
Comments from Stanford Students
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*good, i don't think Yale deserves to be Top 5
*I don't know.. even though Yale's course rankings are not way up there, Yalies currently rule America's government.
*You guys don't seriously think Berkeley is better than Yale do ya? Yale's undergrad focus and academic excellence makes it a rival to Stanford and Harvard---not Berkeley!
Comments from Berkeley Students (there is no comment)
作者：shanice 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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 ZT: 看看当代美国人是怎么评价美国顶级大学的 -- shanice - (14611 Byte) 2004-5-13 周四, 07:20 (1671 reads) - 你好象有名校情结？ -- 顽童 - (0 Byte) 2004-5-13 周四, 11:09 (289 reads)
- Not 名校情结 -- shanice - (144 Byte) 2004-5-13 周四, 12:01 (430 reads)
- Hi,顽童 -- 难枕孤眠 - (69 Byte) 2004-5-14 周五, 09:51 (281 reads)
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